Coexist.
January 4, 2010 by The Pilgrim
The following great piece comes from Jake Hunt at WiserTime:
You’ve seen these, right? They make me mad. Why? Because they don’t really mean what they say.
Let’s break it down. We’ll call each worldview by the letter it’s supposed to represent. So:
- C = Islam
- O = Pacifism
- E = “Gender equality” (=the LGBT agenda)
- X = Judaism
- I = Wicca / Pagan / Bah’ai
- S =Taoism / Confucianism
- T = Christianity
And let’s assume a very broad definition of “coexist”: living together without calling for the destruction of each other. Here are the problems with that:
- C wants to kill E, X, T, and (by implication) O. If they achieved the world they wanted, I and S would also no longer exist.
- O doesn’t allow for effective resistance or defeat of C.
- E stands in direct opposition to C, X, and T, and accuses those who speak against them of hate speech. Also, they’re trying to edge X and T out of public schools in favor of their own agenda. (They’re afraid C will be offended, so they get less trouble.) E is actually very, very intolerant.
- X’s existence is threatened not only by C but also by O, who invariably supports C over X.
- I and S are statistically insignificant and are mainly on there to complete the bumper sticker.
- T is who the bumper sticker is really arguing against, but poses no physical threat to any of the others.
Historically, T has brought about more tolerance– “coexistence” if you will– than any other movement. But the kind of “coexistence” the people who make this sticker envision is one where at least X and T are completely marginalized.
Aleia said:
Are you kidding? “T” as you call it, has caused the same amount of trouble and wars that Islam has, if not more. The satement that Christains have caused no trouble is a ridiculous one, and you should look at history. Christains have killed millions throught our history in the name of their god.
“•T is who the bumper sticker is really arguing against, but poses no physical threat to any of the others.
Historically, T has brought about more tolerance– “coexistence” if you will– than any other movement.” <——–This is the biggest peice of c**p I have ever read.
revivalandreformation said:
Christianity, Aleia did not cause all that bloodshed, man did. Many, many men and women have gone forth into this world under the guise of Christian and killed, stolen, swindled and manipulated…but this is not Christ. Have you ever heard of the Sermon on the Mount? This is in fact Jesus. This is Christianity. If you have a Bible, look it up. Do a Google search on it.
Turn the other cheek, love your enemies, do good to those who harm you…etc. Does this sound like what you have described above? This is Christianity. We are here to serve, love and give our lives for people like you. We are supposed to take your insults, your low blows, your hurt, and turn around and give you love and forgiveness. I have received more hurt and pain from people in my life than you could possibly ever know and I will not hate them. Christ hung on that jagged cross, naked, humiliated and stripped of all His rights as a human being…why? Because of His love. He did that for you. He did it for me. He did it for those who hung Him there. That is Christianity, Aleia.
Kira said:
This post is so generalistic and inaccurate. All Muslims are bad, all pacifists support Islam, all LGBTs are trying to oust other religions, all Christians are perfect and under attack. Being neither Christian nor Muslim, I can say without bias that this post is extremely hypocritical. Aleia is right. Christians have caused as much violence as Muslims have in the name of thier God. However, I agree with you that Christianity has not caused bloodshed, man has. I have read the Bible and i know that it doesn’t say to kill people. But if you know that Christianity does not cause bloodshed and man does, you must be aware that it is the same for Islam. I would recomend reading the first paragraph of your post above and replacing the words “Christianity”, “Christian”, “Christ”, and “Jesus”, with the words “Islam”, “Muslim”, and “Allah”. That might help you understand what I am saying. I have read the Koran, also, and nowhere does it state that Muslims should kill non Muslims in the name of Allah. man causes the violence, not Islam; Allah does not swoop down and try to wipe out every other belief, that is done by insane terrorists. They are, essentially, the rednecks of the Muslim community. There are bad people and good people in every religion; you cannot generalize and say that all Muslims want to kill you. Most Muslims are just normal people like anyone else, but they have to live with the stereotype that people like you give them. Please do not fool yourself into thinking that Christians are all perfect, selfless saints who bring nothing but peace to the world and everyone else is violent and uncivilized. No one likes people who advertise thier own self pity. Also, I assure you that LGBT people are not trying to overthorw any other religion. And yes if people speak against their sexual orientation, then it qualifies as intolerance. As for pacifists, the point of that is to not take sides in religious conflicts. Not all of them side with Islam. And for “I”, that refers to any pagan or polytheistic religion. Hinduism is polytheistic and is one of the largest religions on Earth. Not at all insignificant. “S”, I think, refers to far eastern religions (Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism). Again, not insignificant as a pretty large number of people identify with these. Lastly, this bumper sticker is not targeting Chrisitians. Seriously, what would imply that?. It is targeting everyone, all the intolerant, stereotyping people in the world of every religion and belief system. It’s meant for all of us. Maybe you should learn from it.
The Master's Slave said:
Wow…you definitely need Jesus…and a good hug.
Kira said:
im actually laughing! that was pretty hilarious. i wonder what made you say that? please elaborate becuase, maybe im naive, but i dont see anything that implied i need jesus.
The Master's Slave said:
Well, I didn’t mean to make you laugh, Kira, my intention was to let you know that i feel sorry for you. You are an angry person and you seem to enjoy railing on people like me for whatever purpose suits you. Why subscribe to my blog if you find my posts so objectionable? You do need Jesus because you are in danger of hell and God’s wrath. You have rebelled against God’s commandments (His Law) and now the penalty is death. Just like me, we are vile sinners who do not deserve a lick of grace. Stop wasting your time spitting poison at me and realize that you are starting to smoke and the hell hounds are on your scent. i am hear to help if you wish, but please don’t waste your time with such anger and venom, if you want to banter, great, I will oblige you, otherwise your comments will be deleted.
Kira said:
i apologize if i seemed angry. it does upset me when people have the nerve to generalize entire communities based on the wrongdoings of a few maniacs. im sorry but i do not think that i am anymore likely to go to hell then anyone else on this blog. if defending people from hurtful stereotypes and trying to knock some sense into people who hate them for no reason is is a sin in your eyes fine, but i think most people will agree that being openminded is not a crime. i subscribed to your blog to, hopefully, make people realize that you cannot hate everyone of a religion just because som of them are bad. i hope that people will begin to realize that there is no one supreme religiion and that you need to be respectful enough to accept all religions and not tell others that your’s is the best. im sorry if i offended you, but i think that this post probably offended a lot of people.
The Master's Slave said:
I accept your apologies and I can agree with you when you say that you do not like generalizations, this is the basis for racism and I absolutely despise racism in every form. Now when someone sides with a certain sect, religion, group or people, then they must agree with their ideas and/or vision for the future. This is true with Muslims, Sikhs, Mormons and the like…and Christians. Bad company corrupts good morals and vise versa.
Every person born on this earth will go to hell unless God saves them. You and I and Joe next door are all guilty of breaking God’s law and stand sentenced to hell. However, speaking for myself, God reached down in His sovereignty and saved me from this eternal judgment.
Christianity is the “superior religion” because Jesus is the only way, the only truth and the only life. No man can be saved except through Him. You can deny this and fight against this all you want, but the very fact that you are alive to read this is because a sovereign and holy God willed it. You sound intelligent and well read, so please don’t insult yourself by believing in many ways, many paths, etc. This is the way of fools and it will only lead you to hell.
You have subscribed to this blog to be a voice, read my friend READ, LISTEN and WATCH. You have a wealth of information at your fingertips and before it’s too late, PRAY and ask God to open up your eyes to the truth. He keeps your heart beating for His glory, and you would be wise to cry out to Him, the Judge of all the earth before it’s too late.
Kira said:
im sorry, but i disagree completely. Im not saying this to demean Christians or Christianity, but who says that Christianity is the true faith? What is there that proves this? Also, if you are against racism then why would you put up this post which is so blatantly so, and call it a “great piece”?
The Master's Slave said:
Are you familiar with the Ten Commandments? The Ten Commandments are purposely written to show man that he is incapable of doing it his way. In fact, the best way to describe them is a mirror that when man looks into it, it reflects back his own sin. There’s no hiding from it. You can take it out of schools and society in general, but God’s righteous Law is still there convicting and sentencing man to hell. Whether you agree or not, makes no difference whatsoever. If one believes in gravity or denies its existence, doesn’t make gravity real or fake. It exists and we see its influence on the world around us. The problem with those such as yourself, you have convinced yourself that “gravity” doesn’t exist and only through your own human efforts do you somehow keep yourself from floating off into space. The problem with other religions such as Buddhism, Islam and others is they focus on self. Meism is the main hub in these religions and it makes for a lot of self-absorbed, empty and proud people. Christianity is the only one that teaches dying to self. Putting self on the cross and doing away with our wants and needs and focusing on those around us. Jesus Christ came as a servant, not to be served. He gave and died giving Himself to a dying world. No other religion can boast those claims. To someone such as yourself, preaching Christ crucified, the cross and mortification of the flesh is pure foolishness as God told us would happen. You can’t understand, your eyes have not been opened yet. Your intelligence cannot grasp the Gospel because it’s foolishness to you. It doesn’t make sense and it never will.
You have broken God’s Law, and as Judge He must pass judgment on you. This judgment being death. Do you think yourself a good person? Let me know if you do and we’ll go from there.
Kira said:
please, please please! try to broaden your perspective! it is obvious that you have a very limited perspective and are not aware at all of the world around you. i study religion. do you? do you even know anything about other religions? please let me know if you do. every faith i know of includes giving to those who have less and helping your fellow human beings. and you are wrong that humans are worthless. that is a medievel, outdated notion. humans are capable of both great good and great evil. i consider myself a good person. you will disagree because in your eyes anyone who is not Christian is a sinner and deserves to burn in hell for eternity. i think being a good person is based solely on the deeds you do while you are alive; the positive impact you make on others lives. I volunteer to help the homeless, i tutor kids who need help, i volunteer overseas (specifically to help people, not to convert them), i am tolerant of other peoples views: religious, political, cultural, etc, so, yes, i think im a fairly good global citizen. to be a good person you need to accept others, accept that you are not the best and may never be, and be aware of the world around you. you can strive to be the best christian in the world, you can try to convert as many people as you want, you can tell people that your religion is the best and their’s is worthless, and if you think that will grant you a good life in heaven then fine. but what difference will it make if youre happy while youre dead, if you made people hate you while you were living?
The Master's Slave said:
Let me first off say this: To broaden my perspective would be like placing five or so glasses of various liquids in front of you and tell you that each one except this one contains poison. There is only one that will sustain you and give you life, the others bring death. Would you still tell me to broaden my perspective and try the others? There is only ONE way to salvation and MANY ways to hell.
I have studied religion(s). As far as I am concerned though, I wish not to fill my head with their lies and short sighted dogma. Yes, short sighted. Have you noticed that it’s the Christians being persecuted in foreign countries? Have you noticed it’s the Christians being be-headed, raped and murdered for their faith? Why? Is it because of our so-called narrow-mindedness? Or is there another reason? No one wants to be told that they are vile and sinful. No one wants to be told that they are bad. No one wants to be told that unless they turn their backs on what they’ve been doing their whole life, they will go to hell…but it’s true. Are you a good person? You answered yes. Let’s put a chip in your brain that records your thoughts for a week and converts them to movie format. Then let’s take that movie and play it for all your friends, family and co-workers…are you still a good person? How many lies have you told? How many times have you stolen something? How many times have you used the name of God and Jesus as profanity? How many times have you coveted your neighbours things??? Are you still a good person? On what basis are you comparing yourself? God compares you to Christ Jesus. Sure, you may be better than your co workers, or that serial killer who’s rotting on death-row, but God uses His holy Law to convict you on the basis of you. You are responsible for yourself and you cannot use others as a comparison of how good you are. You and your sin are despicable in God’s eyes and His holiness cannot stand them. he MUST throw you into hell and punish you for eternity. His purity demands it.
Yes mankind is capable of doing good and doing evil, this doesn’t make a hill of bean’s difference when the books are opened. You cannot come to God in the end waving your resume in His face. It will only serve as fodder for the fire. You come to Jesus empty handed. You come to Christ knowing that you cannot save yourself and to think that you can would be the same as a person suffering with leprosy thinking he can cover his condition up by wrapping himself in expensive material. The oozing sickness will eventually find it’s way through again.
I commend you for all the work you do, but unless you do it for the glory of God, while you preach the Gospel to them, you are only giving them a pill to dull their senses while they slip into hell. My only purpose on earth is God’s glory. I live for Him, and I will most likely die for Him. Yes people hate me, they hated Jesus and killed Him because He spoke the truth to them. He exposed them to the Law, He convicted them of their sin, and warned them of their impending doom, and they silenced Him for it. I do not write this blog for my own merits, I write it for God’s glory. I owe my all in all to Him for saving me and I am His slave. I am at His beck and call and do as He pleases. I could very easily trash your comments, but because of the awesome sacrifice that Jesus gave on the cross, I press on writing those such as yourself, praying and hoping that the Holy Spirit will open up your eyes to the truth.
As you read this reply, no doubt you are shaking your head at my closed-mindedness, this is to be expected. You don’t understand. You can’t understand. But understand this. You have sinned against God, your sin murdered Jesus Christ and you will go to hell…or you can take the chance and do it your way and pile up the brownie points…hmmm, quite the gamble.
Kira said:
I think you misunderstood. I said BROADEN YOUR PERSPECTIVE not CONVERT TO A DIFFERENT RELIGION. Get the difference? You really seem to think I have a problem with Christianity, so let’s clear it up now: I do NOT have a problem with Christianity, I do NOT have a problem with Christians, I respect your religion. I have a huge problem with the fact that you are totally inconsiderate and think you are superior to everyone.
Yes, I do notice that Christians are persecuted in some parts of the world, but guess what? They aren’t the only ones! Shocking isn’t it? Unfortunately, people of all backgrounds are persecuted by morons of all backgrounds. Have you noticed that the largest genocide in the world was against Jewish people? Have you noticed that Christians, during colonialization, and during other times killed thousands of people in the name of thier God? But let’s not bring up the past because thats done with; we should focus on the present. Have you noticed that Muslims have massacred in the Balkans? (Yes I know that Christians were also, but do you see that other people die too?) Have you noticed that indigenous religions around the world are being wiped out? Have you noticed that hundreds of Indians, of all religions are being killed by terrorists? Have you noticed that Muslims are being killed by Christian extremists in Nigeria? Have you noticed that Christians aren’t the only ones being persecuted for thier faith? No. You probably didn’t know any of this, and you probably won’t admit it. You look at the sufferings of people you relate to. this is what i mean by broaden your perspective. Recognize that you aren’t the only person in the world. The world is an enormous place, educate yourself about it.
And I have a few more questions for you. These are honest questions, not meant to demean you in any way. Please give me real answers. Why do you think that Christianity is the superior religion, what specifically makes you think that? How do you know that the Bible is true? The things written in it are very old. True that all religious scriptures are very old. They are written down versions of things that were passed orally from generation to generation. So, honestly, how can anyone be so sure that what they read in thier scriptures are right? This goes for any religion. I recognize it which is why I don’t believe one religion is better than another; we don’t know. So how are you so sure?
Another thing I’d like to clear up is that no, i am not a criminal convict. I have never stolen anything, I can promise you that. I have no reason to do something like that. And yes if you were to put a chip in my brain or whatever I think you would still agree that I am a good person. Have I lied? Probably. When I was ten i might have told my parents I didn’t eat a cookie before dinner when in fact I did. May God have mercy on my soul. How about you? Do you think you’d be seen as a good person by others if a chip were placed in your brain? FYI: taking a cookie is not considered a crime in most modern societies, so don’t worry if you’ve done something like that.
And what do you mean it doesn’t make a difference if you are good or evil? it doesnt make a “hills bean difference”? Wow. Are you sure? maybe you wrote that wrong.
I absolutely despise the idea of helping people with the goal of converting them. Religious diversity makes people who they are. It preserves cultures and makes this world a beautiful place. I will NEVER help people with the aim of destroying thier culture for the advancement of mine. Also, I think it would be best for both of us if you stopped trying to convert me. No matter how much you preach, I am perfectly happy with my religion, thanks. So don’t waste your time.
I do not believe I’m heading for hell. Maybe you are right. But I am doing no crime by not being Christian. I am trying my best to help others and end stereotypes and racial profiling. If that is a sin fine, but thats what I will keep doing. You don’t like stereotypes right? Then I am baffled as to what possessed you to post an article as stereotypical, derrogatory, and narrow minded as this. Why did you????
The Master's Slave said:
This is exactly what happens every time I run into people such as yourself. Your eyes are closed and you don’t understand and no matter what I can bring to the table, it wouldn’t matter for your eyes are closed.
I won’t spend much more time on this for frankly, i have better things to do. The Bible tells me not to banter with fools lest I become a fool myself. You don’t believe in God? You are a fool. You never lied (as an adult) or stolen? Okay, you can play the denial game if you wish, that’s fine, but let me clear up some of your points here and then I am through.
Christians are not responsible for all the bloodshed done supposedly in the name of Jesus Christ. They hid behind a church or religious organization, they were not Christians. Get that straight please.
To go over the same old bone regarding the authenticity of the Bible is a waste of time. You are a product of your schooling and you are a cookie cutter product of your university. I can’t tell you how many times I have run into your double, and you are all angry, bitter and usually come from a religious up-bringing and were surrounded by hypocrites all your life. Now you have the answers…right? There is so much in the way of evidence for the Bible’s inerrency that to waste my time trying to convince you would be just that. Sorry.
I am not a good person in any way shape or form. Let’s clear the air on that one as well. I am selfish, proud, and arrogant. I lie, steal, cheat and hurt those I love by my words. I am not perfect by any stretch and I would die a thousand deaths if someone were to record my thoughts over an hour let alone a week. Apparently you are way better than I am…thank God He saved me in spite of myself…
I am trying to save you from hell. I am not trying to destroy your culture, religion or what have you. You are in danger of hell fire and you are too proud and full of yourself to realize it. This post is truthful and honest. It shows the general consensus of each of the religious groups mentioned. Christians on the whole act a certain way…yes? So do Buddhists…yes? Please get your nose back in joint and let the anger go. You are just eating yourself up, and destroying those around you while you try to earn your way to whatever salvation, nirvana or whatever you believe in. You will not pass judgment in the end and to say may be I’m right and perhaps maybe you’re right is a gamble I am not willing to take. What if you’re wrong? If I’m wrong, then no big deal and no skin off my nose. If you’re wrong…God will not help you, but He will forever drown you in His holy wrath. Sorry…it’s just the truth.
Kira said:
I’m not going to argue with you about me burning in hell anyomore. Thanks for your pity, but you can keep it because I’m doing nothing worng by helping people and so will continue to do so. Christians did not cause bloodshed, they hid behind the church. Is that not what Islamic terrorists do to? Please answer me that. Also answer if you think this article is fair to the religions and groups that it mentions. Are all Christians good? Are all Muslims bad? etc. I posted on this site only to denounce the fact that the article is racist and generalistic. THAT cannot be denied, even by you. Also, why do you assume that i am a product of my university, who says I went to college? Who even says I’m an adult? You act like you know me because you think you are superior.
Pingback: About that COEXIST bumper sticker… « agnus dei – english + romanian blog
doreen said:
Why an atheist would subscribe to a Christian website is beyond me, but then, the strangest things do happen.
I have a few questions, to whomever will read.
1) Where were you when the world was created?
2) How would you prove that God does not exist?
3) How would you prove that Jesus Christ is NOT the way, the truth and the life?
4) If Jesus Christ is not the way, the truth and the life, then who is?
5) If being ‘broad minded’, means accepting everything and anything without question, who wants to be broad minded? So, is murder ok?
Enough questions. No answers necessary.
Kira said:
Hi Doreen,
I read your post and was wondering who said I’m an atheist? I know I didn’t. When the world was created I wasnt there. and neither was anyone else. I never said god does not exist, I said to accept other religions, respect thier right to exist, and not to stereotype entire communities based on the stupidity of a few people. I never said Jesus Christ is not the way of life. He is the Christian way of life. I said to respect everyone else’s view on religion. But just as a question, not to insult you, who says Jesus Christ is the way of life? the Bible? Other religious texts argue that thier God/gods are the way of life. This is why we should all have the decency to let others practice thier religion in peace and in turn practice our religion in peace. Being broad minded is being able to accept people’s cultures, views, and lifestyles. It does not mean to accept violence or hate. And I have absolutely NO idea as to why you would ask a question as ridiculous as “is murder ok?” im going to say no to that, as i think any normal person would. Now I have a few questions for you:
1) Is it ok to stereotype people based on a few people in thier community?
2) Should we disrespect other religions simply because they are different than ours?
3) Should we force our religion onto people who aren’t forcing thier religion onto us?
4) Doesn’t everyone have the right to practice thier own religion?
5) Do you approve of racism?
annawood said:
I’m going to prayerfully jump in here. I myself like Voddie Baucham’s proclamation of why he believes the Bible to be the true, unadulterated, Word of God. This is what he says:
“I choose to believe the Bible because it is a reliable collection of historical documents, written by eyewitnesses during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses. They report supernatural events that took place in fulfillment of specific prophecies, and they claim to be divine rather than human in origin.”
Now let us explore what he said:
We can argue all we want but what good does that do? Facts speak loudly so let us examine the facts of the matter or, as Scripture itself invites us to do, “Come, let us reason together”:
The Bible is a reliable collection of historical documents whose truth has been proven over time. It is a recording of events, documented by those who lived them or who knew those who lived them, that has been handed down over time.
The Bible is full of prophecies that have been fulfilled: for instance the birth of Jesus. Jesus is a historical figure Whose life can be documented from secular documents. His birth, His death, was prophesied throughout the Old Testament. For instance, it was prophesied that He would be born of the tribe of Judah in Genesis 49:10 and He was; in Isaiah 7:14, it was said He would be born of a virgin, and He was; Micah 5:2 said that He would be born in Bethlehem and He was. Zechariah 11:12 claims that He would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver and He was. Psalms 22: 16 claimed that Jesus would be pierced through His hands and His feet, foretelling His crucifixion; this particular piece of Scripture was written about 1,000 years before crucifixion was even invented so there is no way at all that he could guess at it since no one had ever heard of it, seen it, or ever even thought of it. All in all, Jesus fulfilled all of the ancient prophesies foretold about Him within His lifetime. That doesn’t just happen by chance.
Besides foretelling the life of Christ, the Bible has often told of things, events and people long before any other outside proof came. Nonetheless, eventually it was proven true. For example: the Hittites. Scripture mentions a people group called the Hittites 36 times. Atheists and scoffers used to laugh because no evidence for a Hittite civilization had ever been found. Then in 1884 their scoffing was silenced because archaeologists found proof that the Hittites were a major ancient civilization. That’s happened in other ways, also: the lands of Ur, Sodom, and Gomorrah were mentioned in the Bible but no one else seemed to know about them. That is until the 1960′s when the Elba tablets were found in Syria, bearing reference to all of those cities. Not only do these tablets prove that the Bible is true in its historical records but they also prove that mankind had written records long before it was known to have. This again silenced scoffers as they had often said Moses couldn’t have written the first five books of the Old Testament (Pentateuch) because writing hadn’t been invited yet; since the Elba tablets were written over 1,000 years before Moses lived, this proved that claim to be false. Not one claim that the Bible makes has ever been proven false.
As for the resurrection of Christ, hundreds of eye-witnesses laid claim to His resurrection. Many of these men, and many more hundreds, even thousands, besides them, died horrible deaths defending His resurrection. If they knew it to be false, if they knew that they themselves were making it up, why would they be willing to die for it? Who wants to die for a lie?
Then there is the claim that Scripture was just made up, that we have don’t have the originals, that the men who are said to have written them didn’t actually do so or didn’t exist. To this, this can be said: There are over 24,000 existing copies of the originals. You don’t think that is much? Then consider this: Julius Caesar’s account of the Gallic Wars only has about 10 existing copies. Aristotle’s writings have only about 5 existing copies. The writings of Herodotus and Homer each have less than 10 existing copies. Now to the fact that these are copies and not the originals themselves, consider this: The oldest existing copy of Julius Caesar’s Gallic Wars was written about 1000 years after the original–yet we don’t doubt its authenticity. The oldest existing copy of Aristotle’s writings was written about 1400 years after the original (but no college professor argues that we can’t trust them).The oldest existing copies of the New Testament were written only 25 years after the original–and yet scoffers claim we can’t trust them.
The thing is, if someone wanted to lie, to change the Bible, to make it say what they wanted, back then, in the annals of time, this is what they would have had to have done: The monks in charge of the Scriptures would have to find over 24,000 manuscripts, change each copy without showing their work (don’t let anyone else know that they are changing things),and then get them back to the places they stole them from and hope they weren’t found out. Well, what if they waited and wanted to change them later? Then they would have had to go find all of the copies that had now been translated into Syriac, Coptic and Latin and change all of them, remembering the lies that they were putting into each one, match those lies in each language, and then return them to their original places without being found out. Then, there’s the problem of the church fathers: they reproduced much of Scripture in their commentaries. Now the Monks would have to go find them, change them to meet their new versions of their lies, return everything (along with the now changed Scriptures themselves) without being found out. The further out you go, the harder it gets to believe it even could have been done.
The thing is this: the Bible was written in three different languages (Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek) on three separate continents (Asia, Africa and Europe) by over 40 different authors (most of whom never met each other) over a period of 1500 years, and yet it tells one single story: the story of Jesus.
For scoffers, though, Scripture also contains scientific facts that were not known by mankind until thousands of years after they were written: Job chapter 27 describes how earth hangs on nothing and refers to “circle on the face of the water at the boundary of light and darkness”–this implies that the earth is a sphere. This wasn’t even considered by scientists until the time that Magellan lived and he was born in 1480 and died in 1521! Then Scripture contains information about being sanitary, wind currents, water cycles, springs in the sea (discovered by man in 1977!), and so on and so on!
But, yet one more thing ought to be considered: most religions are about what you can do for its god or what you have to do in order to get to its god. Even if they were true, it requires diligence and much good work in order to work yourself into it. Nothing is known of grace in these religions. Christianity, however, is uniquely about what God has done for you and to get to you. Christianity proclaims that God humbled Himself to become a Man (Jesus). Other religions offer gurus, prophets, pro-claimers, founders; Christianity alone offers a Savior Who was willing to die so that others might have eternal life. Christianity alone claims a leader Who claimed to be God and Who, being God, became Man, lived a perfect and sinless life and was willing to die as a sacrifice for our sins (we are all sinners by transgressing divine law) thus making it possible for us to live at peace with God and promised us eternal life with Him.
While there is some truth in other religions, most of their writings are based on the works of one man. Christianity alone offers the foundation that we’ve already laid out (above). Christianity alone offers hundreds of fulfilled prophecies many of which can be documented outside of Christianity itself (there are at least 39 ancient non-biblical sources that backs up Scriptures claims).
As far as claims of racism and such go, consider this: Jesus was an Eastern Man. Most of His followers are not white. Christianity was in Africa before Europe, India before England, and China before America. It is said that 75 percent of Jesus’ followers live outside of the Western world! That’s pretty multi-cultural, don’t you think?
Quoting from a book by Reynolds Price, “Three Gospels: The Good News According to Mark, The Good News According to John, an Honest Account of a Memorable Life”, a quote on page 166 has this to say, “That seems a fair outline of John’s story. Yet the outline can be pressed further down, to a sentence- the force that conceived and bore all things came here among us, proved his identity in visible human acts, was killed by men no worse than we, arose from death, and walked again with early believers, vowing eternal life to those who also come to believe that he is God and loves us as much as his story shows. None of the other active world religions says anything remotely similar or comparable. John’s story, which- more than the story of the other gospels- became the Orthodox Christian faith, is in fact repugnant to Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, and to all the indigenous beliefs of India and Japan. There is likewise no parallel in the theologies of John’s contemporaries- the dead myths of Greece or Rome, with their demigods and deified bureaucrats. Again, John hands us a brand-new thing.”
I don’t know if my laying out all of this will do any good or not. I pray it does. May God enlighten all who will listen and guide all whom He calls.
Kira said:
Hi Annawood,
Please understand that all I have been saying on this blog, essentially, is to not stereotype communties and religious groups for no reason. I respect Christianity. I think Christians should be able to practice thier religion in peace. I also believe that everyone of any other religion should be able to practice thier faith in peace, as well. I’d say that’s no to much to ask of everyone right? I dislike people trying to convert people of other religions to thier religion. Maybe they believe that they are actually helping people by converting them, but religion is part of culture, you wouldn’t want to destroy different cultures? Diversity is what makes the world so beautiful. So be and let be. FYI: How do you know that the idea that god loves us is repugnant to every other faith? Are you familiar with every other faith? I do not know for sure about Judaism and Islam, so i won’t say anything there, but you are definetely false about Buddhism, and Indian religions. Buddhism has no “god” so to speak, and me bieng a Hindu, I can tell you right now that ths concept is not at all repugnant to Hinduism. Besides you can’t say that the concept is repugnant to everyone of every religion. Maybe to some, but definetely not to all. No need to generalize like that.
Pingback: Have You Seen This Bumper Sticker? (via The Masters Slave) « The Cross Is All
ChurchSalt said:
Hi Kira,
I was reading your comments above and one thing kept jumping out at me: you “study religion” as an academic discipline, not as a search for truth. Religion isn’t primarily a cultural seasoning. It is an attempt to grasp actual facts. There either is a God, or there isn’t. One of those is a true fact of reality and one isn’t. There either is law set forth by God, or there isn’t. You are either guilty of breaking that law or you are not. Your opinion of these things has absolutely no effect on facts whatsoever. Facts are facts. The true question is, “what are the facts concerning these things.”
Master’s Slave, like myself, has looked into these things and become convinced that the Bible is laying out the facts. There are many reasons for this including logic, prophecy, observable behaviors, nature and more. But all of these are simply channels through which the Lord has brought us unto Himself. I am quite sure you have answers prepared for anything one might say to you in each of these catagories.
I find your approach of religion as a cultural custom to be truly frightening (for you). I find your casual dismissal of God’s law to be even more so. If He and His law are facts, as we are convinced, then your opinion of that law and how good of a person you might be are irrelevant. Judges don’t care one whit what the opinion of the accused might be. “Good” is a relative term, and in a court, it will be used in relation to the law. This means we are all in trouble! That is why Jesus is called a “savior” and not just a “helper”.
I see this conversation has been lengthy, and I highly doubt this addition to it or anything else I might say will sway you, but I am truly praying (not just saying this) that Christ will reach out and sway you Himself. He can do that, you know. I hope you have a pleasant day and take the time to truly reflect on these things.
Kira said:
Hi Churchsalt,
Actually, I don’t study religion as an academic discipline, although you’re right that I don’t study it as a search for truth either. I study different religions because I am interested in learing about them, I think it is important to be well versed in these things to be able to partake in international affairs, and because so much conflict is rooted in religious differences. I cannot understand why people of different faiths cannot be and let be, but i want to be able to know what makes them think the way they do, which is why I learn about the religions of the world.
Next, one cannot deny that religion is a big part of the culture of a region. When you think of the culture of the Far East most people think of high rice and soy consumption and Buddhism. When people think of India they think of large population, high temperature and Hinduism. When people think of the Middle East they think of desert, high temperatures and Islam. When people think of Spain they think of beaches, Mediterranean climate and Catholocism. So religion is definetely part of the culture of a region. I am not Christian and so I have different views about what will happen when I die, than you do. You may have noticed that my first post on this article was specifically denouncing the generalizations, stereotypes and racism that this article promotes. Do you accept racism? i hope you don’t. That is the only reason I subscribed to this site, to bring up that this article is rude and demeaning. I thought people would agree with me, but instead this has become not a conversation about the racism in this article, but a conversation about how God will surely send me to hell for my mistake of defending people from racism. I hope you have a pleasant day as well and that you realize what I am argueing fo here/.
ChurchSalt said:
Hey Kira,
Sure religion gets associated with cultures, but that is not its’ PRIMARY role. As far as racism, I have to admit that I am totally missing your point. The bumper sticker is about religion, not race. I have met plenty of non-european Roman Catholics, American Hindus and European Muslims. Do you mean to suggest that disagreeing with a particular religion makes somebody racist? To be honest, I am missing the point about live-and-let live as well. Why? Again, back to facts. If the facts point to millions of people preparing to be thrown into eternal punishment, why would I stay silent? Silence is inhumane and cruel! If your house is on fire while you sleep, would you not want me to pound on the door and windows to awaken you to the danger? The pounding and yelling would be rude any other time, but when there is a very real fire approaching your place of sleep, it is the kindest thing I can do for you. That is the mindset of the Christian, and why the Christian speaks out. I agree that “live and let live” should be applied to violence in the name of religion and forcible “conversions”, but never to the verbal and written message. I hope this helps you understand the mindset, which applies to true, biblical christianity. As far as some of the more notoriously violent religions on the sticker, maybe not so much (If you have read the quran, you know that it does indeed have directives for modern day believers to fight and kill. Lots of them. I can provide you a list with MANY such verses if you like).
The Christian mindset (feeling the need to pound on your door) is why many of the comments are directed at you rather than your concerns. We are more concerned about Kira than whether or not a false religion is upset with the facts of reality God’s Word.
Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe one of these religion is presenting the truth of your reality?
Kira said:
That is not the Christian mindset. That is your mindset. I don’t live in a cave, I have many, many Christian friends. They do not believe that they need to preach to me all the time to save me from the fires of hell. And there are things that can be interrepted in the Koran as being a call to kill, but obviously that is not how most people interpret it. There are mentions of rape and slavery in the Bible, but the Bible by no means encourages that behavior. And ok you’re right, the post isn’t “racist”, but i think you are smart enough to understand what i meant. Fine, it is not “racist” but it is stereotypical. Since “religionist” is not a word, i used the word “racist” for the sake of saving explanation. But do you think it is fair to say that ALL Muslims are bad and everything else that was said up there?
ChurchSalt said:
Hey Kira,
I am puzzled. You state that the Quran has passages directing to kill, but that’s not “how most people interpret it”. So you are ignoring a religion’s mandates per their sacred text and instead making generalized statement based on your experiences and observations! Then you turn around and accuse the author of this post of making generalizations! His points are based on the written beliefs of the texts in question, which is the only fair way to analyze any religion. You do the same thing with Christianity. The Bible make it clear we are to preach the Gospel to all people, but your friends don’t, so you say it is only the mindset of “some” Christians. Sorry, but the text is clear…it is the mindset of all obedient Christians, regardless of your experience with professing christians who don’t care enough about you to warn you of the judgment to come.
We could debate for days, but since by your own admission your interest is in no way a pursuit of truth, I see no point. Don’t you think you should take a few moments to ponder your approach? I find this scientific “analysis” to be tragic. Farewell.
Frank said:
Kira,
Doesn’t it seem strange that Jesus’ ministry and His proof of divinity were all publicly displayed? This is in contrast to all other religions where the people most responsible for their beginnings had secret revelations or secret contacts with angels or God. Just think of Joseph Smith or Mohammed and their encounters with angelic beings. Think of Buddha who was supposedly enlightened under a tree. The list goes on and on and is inclusive. No founder of any religion other than Jesus performed public miracles, claimed divinity without commenting on being told this by an angel or by God in some secret session, fulfilled prophecy that was written thousands of years before their births, and most importantly were really raised from the dead in bodily form. Even His death on the cross with subsequent miraculous events, to include His resurrection, were as public as they could be. By command, not prayer, He raised the dead, cast out demons, commanded Satan (be gone) controlled nature (the wind and fig tree), demonstrated His superiority over matter (walked on water), created matter through augmentation (the loaves and fishes), healed all organic and inorganic diseases and sicknesses and knew the thoughts of man. He demonstrated that His power came from His own authority, within Himself. The recipients and onlookers didn’t have to wait around for months and years to see if Jesus’ commands would be obeyed, as with present day charlatans. No other founder ever lived a perfect life and always obeyed God. No other founder ever claimed to come down from heaven and no other founder actually claimed “they” were the way, the truth and the life and then documented their claim by signs and wonders. All others who claimed some exclusive insight into a different system of truth are dead and buried and we could dig up their bones to prove it. Jesus’ tomb was empty for the world to see. Even the Lord’s enemies conceded His miracles, while attributing them to some type of magic or satanic empowerment.
God’s desire is to have people trust and believe in Him, therefore everything was done openly and publicly for our benefit. Every religious truth given to us by the Lord was indeed confirmed by 2 or more witnesses. He also is just and delights in lovingkindness, justice, and righteousness. Man will clearly have no excuse when God finally calls us to account for our lives. We will not be able to say to Him, “I wasn’t there to observe those things”, unless of course we can say we believe no historical or contemporaneous event that we didn’t observe. The Lord gave us hundreds of witnesses who faithfully testified “publicly” not only by their behavior, but also by sacrificing their own lives “publicly”. Some may choose to die for bad second hand knowledge, but none will voluntarily choose to die for bad firsthand knowledge. Those who have followed some other savior or system of belief will NOT be able to debate their cause before Him who has provided us with all we will ever need- publicly. They may state their case before Him on that day, but He will dismiss them by proclaiming “I never knew you”, depart from Me you who practice lawlessness. Even His natural creation reveals His invisible attributes and divinity so that all can SEE. Satan indeed works in darkness and deceit, but the Lord God almighty works in the light and in truth.
Jesus even refers to Himself as the true light who has come into the world, but men loved darkness and did not come to the light because they didn’t want others to know that their deeds were evil because they did not originate with God, but from their own evil hearts. Every action of man that is not done by faith in Jesus does not glorify God, but either condemns himself or justifies himself in his own eyes and/or the eyes of mankind. Substituting our concept of righteousness and evil, is sin and we will be held accountable. God said that even the prayers and sacrifices of the lost are an abomination to Him. God the Father made it absolutely certain that no one could counterfeit or approximate the works of our Lord. Every attempt by other religious founders or men who claim to be God or godlike, are dismal failures that even a child could expose. Only evil blinded hearts could be confused or misled into following anyone else. “For the preaching of the cross is foolishness to them who are perishing, but for us who are being saved, it is the power of God for salvation.
Kira said:
Frank
Undertand that Hinduism claims that the gods performed miracles. Is it true? I don’t know. The fact is moat religious texts were first passed orally form generation to generation and were then written down. Even the Bible. Maybe its true maybe its not. But I cannot understand why this discussion is being taken as me attacking Christianity. I commented on this post becuase the post is generalistic and demeaning. Are you saying it isn’t?
Frank said:
Kira,
No I didn’t consider the original post to be demeaning; although it may have been somewhat generalistic. You comment lacks logic in regards to Christianity and Christ. My post specifically mentioned all the visible signs that Christ gave us that have been documented by history, to include by those who crucified Him. If they could have presented His body, the Christianity would have died then. What you are attempting to do is deconstruct my statements by saying that other religions claim the same thing. If you read my post again carefully you will notice that the life of Christ is so unique that no one in history could ever duplicate it. Just because there might be similarities has nothing to do with the truth regarding Jesus. Many people do this by talking about oral traditions, etc. that came to us and then somehow became truth over the centuries. The Christian bible was completely written during the 1st century, so I’m not at all sure what things were passed down to us that might not be true. The issue I was addressing was Jesus Christ, my Messiah and how He was in fact unique, just like He claimed! It was solely to help you, not to enter into a debate. Your position cannot be debated. Now in your posts you clearly thought that the exclusiveness of Christianity is something that perhaps is intolerant even if you didn’t use those exact words. The people who understood you post to be anti-christian were correct. You really didn’t do a very good job of hiding your agenda.
I personally use the word intolerant differently than most people and prefer to say that Christianity is exclusive and non-accepting of other faiths. I tolerate other faiths, but never accept them. Anyway, this will be my last post regarding this issue. If I thought you were looking for truth, then I would be happy to engage you, but you clearly aren’t. But before I sign off, so to speak, I did want to list just some of the things that Christ said about His uniqueness. If you think the original post was demeaning or that some of those who have responded to you, you are not correct. We are simply repeating the claims of our Savior, perhaps not well, but we are trying.
Matthew 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Galatians 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
Hebrews 1:1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
[24] “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am {He,} you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24 NASB)
[12] “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.” (Act 4:12 NASB)
[6] Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. (John 14:6 NASB)
[5] For there is one God, {and} one mediator also between God and men, {the} man Christ Jesus, (1Ti 2:5 NASB)
[9] Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath {of God} through Him. (Rom 5:9 NASB)
[16] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. [17] For in it {the} righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS {man} SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.” (Rom 1:16-17 NASB)
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
[26] For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, [27] but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. [28] Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on {the testimony of} two or three witnesses. [29] How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? [30] For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” [31] It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hbr 10:26-31 NASB)
The Master's Slave said:
You see Kira, you are the arrogant, narrow-minded one here. You are so narrow-minded in fact, that you refuse to even open up your mind to what we believe is the truth. You have absolutely no hope outside of Christ. You can struggle and strive your whole life justifying your “goodness” with works and in the end God will just shake His head and sentence you to hell. Your works, as I told you only justify your need for judgment. You are trampling Christ’s work into the ground with your superior attitude and you will answer to the Man, YOUR sin put on the cross. I am not superior, I am only concerned with your type. It would be like walking down the road and see you on fire. You continue to window shop without any idea that flames are racing up your back. I have three options: Help by grabbing you by the neck or hair or whatever I can grab hold of and throwing you to the ground and stomping out the fire, ask you if you want to be helped so as to respect your views on the subject or at the risk of offending, keep on walking hoping you eventually notice. The third option is what your so called Christian friends are doing. I will not. I have warned you, proclaimed the Gospel to you and now it is Christ’s commandment to let you go. Watch this video, please. All these comments directed at you are done so out of love, PLEASE understand that. I couldn’t live with myself knowing what Jesus Christ went through on the cross and to see you slip screaming and cursing into an eternal hell.
Kira said:
Thanks for the video, but i will not comment further lest i insult you.
annawood said:
Kira,
Many prayers have been and will be offered up on your behalf. May God have mercy on you.
~ Anna
Kira said:
I can see that there is no point in me argueing my point any farther. I give up on you. You are superior, Christ is the only way, the rest of the world is dumb and stupid for not believing geniuses like you. Happy??
One must be capable of independent though in order to perceive the world around them. To close ones eyes is the same as being blind, to close ones ears is the same as being deaf. You are living in a bubble. A place where you feel superior and secure, and obviously threatened, when an outsider like me tries to bring a new perspective. Sorry, but there is a world outside, and in that world people who think like you are, thankfully, a minority. But if you are happy in your sheltered little bubble, then fine. I hope one days you will open your eyes and your ears and view the world in a new, equal and tolerant light. I hope you will learn to coexist. I apologize for bursting your bubble.
Willy P. said:
Way to go Kira..!!!! and now, can we COEXIST..?????
The Master's Slave said:
Nope…
The Master's Slave said:
You see for Christians, real, Scripturally saved Christians to co-exist with other religions, we have to compromise. We have to be accepting of that which our God condemns. Be tolerant of Muslims means we have to accept their killing, treachery and deceit.
To accept Buddhists, we have to accept their beliefs of reincarnation, meditation and such…
We serve one God, one Jesus, one Gospel message. We believe in a real hell and a real heaven where slaves of Christ will go when they die. Thos not saved by God’s grace will go to hell.
Wica, Judaism, Mormonism, JW’s…etc., have nothing in common with us and in order to accept them, we must accept their concepts of other Gods, other afterlifes, other ways of salvation that are not God-based but rather man-based.
The bride of Christ is promised to one Man. If we are to be accepting of other “grooms”, we would render ourselves unfit.
Kira said:
Hmmm. Haven’t been back on this site in a while. How are all of you? Thanks to Willy P., by the way, its nice to have a little support. And Master’s Slave, how’ve you been doing? I see you are as blinded as you were when we last spoke. I, again, encourage you to open your eyes and join the 21st century, a time in which modern societies uphold tolerance of all forms of peaceful diversity.
The Master's Slave said:
Ohhh, I see. So in order to be tolerant, broad-minded and uh…what other catch words do you all use these days? Anyway, I have to accept the following:
1. Gays and Lesbians engaging in blatant sin and persecuting Christians for not agreeing with them? BTW, is it tolerable to put a pastor in prison for speaking out against the GLBT movement? I sense a titch of hypocrisy here…
2. Abortion…those who don’t agree with a woman’s so-called right to dispose of “an accident” get thrown in jail as well. Hmmm…hypocritical? What happened to tolerating other views?
3. Muslims. Those wonderful, “peaceful, loving and decent” individuals who attack and kill all those who speak out against them. I do remember you and others saying we, intolerant, close minded people must be accepting of these peace loving people. Hmmm….I sense a pattern here.
4. The occult. We as Christians are to accept these earth worshiping, pot smoking, kill the babies but protect the seals types in order to be tolerant, but alas, we get thrown in jail, fired from our jobs, and persecuted in society because WE don’t accept them?! Very interesting to say to least.
Shall I go on? You tout your tolerance but you and those like you NEVER tolerate us. We get shut down, thrown in prison, fired from our jobs, raked across the coals, isolated from society, killed and raped…and we who speak of loving the unloveable, reaching out to the unreachable and turning the other cheek always are labeled as intolerable, unloving, close minded. Could and would you die for your enemies? Not sure if you’re married or not, but let’s say you were raped and battered by an ugly man who declared incessantly that Allah told him to do this, could you proceed with charging him in a court of law for what he did? Would you dare be so intolerant? Let’s say that same man was sentenced to the chair for the crimes he committed against you. Could you send your only child to that chair in his place? Well, my dear Kira, that is exactly what Jesus did. He died in your place and took your punishment for all the junk you have committed against him with your atheism and so called reason.
Tolerance huh? You don’t even know what the word means.
Kira said:
My friend, you seem convinced that any non-Christian must be a two faced, lying, violent demon. Your first, second, and fourth arguement, I do not have sufficient knowledge about. I will not argue with you on those matters becasue I do not like to pretend to know things I do not. It is my belief that people should not be taught to deplore LGBTs, but from what i know of your first arguement, I think that jailing the pastor is certainly an overreaction (ps: if we are thinking of the same pastor, I believe he was acquitted). I believe that in certain cases abortion should be allowed, and in others it should not. This jaiIing you speak of in your second arguement, is not a case I am famliar with at this time, so I will not comment further on that. I am also not famliar with “the occult” as I have never met anyone of those views, so I can’t argue on that point.
I know that in many places Christians do “get shut down, thrown in prison, fired from our jobs, raked across the coals, isolated from society, killed and raped”. They are victims of violence simply because of thier faith. This is WRONG and I deplore it. However, you are presenting this arguement like angels and demons. All the wonderful, loving, tolerant Christians out there are being persecuted by all the hypocritical, violent, non-Christians. I see several things wrong with that arguement. First, you act like this Christians are being persecuted everywhere, which is certainly not the case. You act like you are always the victim and are always the ones trying to do good. I know that there are many, many, many tolerant Chrisitans out there. They make up the majority of your faith. All I’m saying is that you are very clearly not one of them. Furthermore, I have said nothing that would enable you to brand me a hypocrite.
I am not married. If I were raped by a Muslim man or a man of any other faith I would without a doubt take him to court, where he would be convicted, because rape is a serious crime in the US. There is absolutely nothing intolerant about dealing justice to a criminal, and faith has nothing to do with it. I have no child, but if I did, I would not “send it to the chair” in that man’s place. Anyone who commits such a heinous crime out of their free will deserves the punishment they get. Also, I’m not an atheist.
Now that I have cleared that much up, let me state that I have no idea how your mind works that you think that rape has a place in this debate. It has nothing to do with anything.
Now, your third arguement. Again, you are generalizing. Which Muslims are you basing this off of? The terrorists. MOST MUSLIMS ARE GOOD PEOPLE AS ARE THE MAJORITY OF ALL PEOPLE. Do NOT generalize entire societies like this. It is WRONG. I do not want you to respect or tolerate terrorism or extremism or fundamentalism in any form of any religion. I DO want you to respect and tolerate those people who go about their religion peacefully. You can disagree with them, but respect thier views and let them be. I would not argue with you were you not trying to generalize people and force you views on everyone.
I know far more about tolerance than you do, my friend. You see, unlike you, I respect people of all races, ethicities, nationalities, gender, sexual orientation, faiths, etc. as long as they are kind and respectful people as well. YOu on the other hand….. Why dont you just scroll up and take a look at Willy P.’s comment and your response. Enough said. Lastly, if you choose to reply to this, please put together a more coherent comment. Your last one lacked any visible point, was extremely scattered, and brought up things that were completely irrelevant (rape? really?).
Have a nice day.
The Master's Slave said:
As I said to my wife today, “It probably won’t make one ounce of good…”
You see, Kira, I have met your type many times as you have met mine. We lock horns and no one gives an inch. In fact, we can’t give an inch. From your side, you are a tolerant, loving atheist who sees so much more than most. You see outside of the box and have made your peace with the universe. Fine. You are set in your ways and like cement, there is no room for flexibility.
From my side of things, I follow Christ Jesus. This is my foundation. He was the most inflexible, intolerant man in history and he died on a cross because he wouldn’t budge an inch from his morals. You see, he was and is GOD. He sustains the universe with the power of his might and right now, this very second, is ordaining your path straight to hell. I pray he saves you, opens your eyes to the very real fact that There is only one way, the Narrow Way. This makes all those who follow after him “narrow-minded”. This makes us unflexible and intolerant, just like the myriads of Christians who have died for their faith, and just like Jesus who died not because he was a popular, tolerant, relevant and loving guy, but because he was branded a nut-case, demoniac, hypocrite, judgmental, hateful, bigoted and a rebel, because he refused to budge an inch and railed down on the religious system of the day. He also went into the places where no self respecting Christian would ever go and minister. He never once hid his ethical stance but rather shone the light of truth into the darkness and exposed man’s sin. This made him unbearable.
You can’t understand what I am saying, because the god of this world has blinded you from the truth. You can no more see the truth of what I am saying anymore than a blind man can see the cliff he is slowly approaching. You are doomed and heading for destruction and I feel sorry for you.
When I left my reply to Willy today as a simple, “Nope.”, it was meant to be simple and straight forward. No a slave of Christ, bought with a price by the sacrifice of Jesus cannot live a double life. He is forever loyal to his Master, and can never flex with the changing currents of society. Forever, there will be those like yourself locking horns with those like me and neither will give an inch. So be it. However, one day it will be all ironed out and we will see who is indeed right.
It’s my wedding anniversary today and I will be taking the rest of the night off to celebrate this wonderful occasion with my bride and four lovely children. I pray that God does open your eyes before it’s too late, it would be awesome to see for sure.
Kira said:
First of all, Happy Aniversary. I really do hope you and your wife and family had a lovely day. In reply to your post, while I do find debating with you entertaining (and actually infromative, as it allows me to see your perspective, though I don’t agree with it), I can see that you don’t really read my comments and as such, I have no wish to further this debate. Thank you for this discussion and have a nice day.
The Master's Slave said:
Thank you for your Anniversary wishes, that I appreciate. Next, I don’t know if finding my comments entertaining is a good thing or a bad thing, but if you actually have read my comments then the seed’s been planted.
Thirdly, Kira, I do read your comments as well as my wife and together we talk them over and only then do I respond. You seem to think that I am very patronizing and condescending and nothing is further from the truth. if you were bale to, you could ask my wife and my children and you would know that you have been the centre of conversation the last couple of days and my children actually ask me if Kira has written back yet. We have all prayed for you and my heart bleeds for your soul. The heart of Jesus compelled him to the cross and my heart, which beats with his love compels me to keep conversing with the likes of you. I could very easily delete you and no one would be the wiser.
ChurchSalt said:
After reading the lengthy and ongoing diatribes against all the idea of absolute truth, the truth of God’s sovereignty, and the always offensive idea that the Lord has laws and is just as well as loving, I have come to the conclusion that further dialogue is useless. The things of the Spirit are foolish to those who are not of the spirit. Move along folks….nothing to see here!
The Master's Slave said:
It’s a sad thing to see someone such as Kira blinded, deceived and sliding happily down the slippery slope of sin. I can only hope that she has stumbled upon my blog through God’s plans to save her.
doreen said:
Read this in the Scriptures today. “The Lord has made all for Himself, yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.”
Either He has, or He hasn’t.
It says, He has.
doreen said:
Just think, all this futile commenting has been going on for over two years. The good thing is, God cannot lose, and I’m glad I’m on His side.
By the way, Happy Anniversary. Glory to God.
God bless.
The Master's Slave said:
Isn’t it sad? I mean, an educated, supposedly intelligent woman, and she can’t even see God at the end of her nose. I have come at Kira every way I can, and it really has been confirmed in my heart that yes, God and only God holds the key to salvation. I can’t open that door, no matter how hard I try. I know people like her, and it’s so very sad to see their slow destruction. I know of a man in his 80′s just like her. He is bitter and resentful toward all that is Christian. He’s been hurt by Christians and the main problem with these people is they hold Christians to a different standard than the rest of the world and it’s not allowed for us to be human and hypocritical. We are, all of us. We are all failures in this, we all have warts, we are all selfish hypocrites. The only difference between me and Kira, I know who I am, I know my sin, corruption, selfishness, hypocrisy and ugliness, she doesn’t.
My anniversary is an event that took four years of fight to achieve. Our four children were with us, celebrating our family united. That’s a real wedding anniversary!
Michael S Forti said:
I believe my invisible magic sky dweller is better than your invisible magic sky dweller. Let’s gut each other to prove who’s right… I think most of the posts I’ve read here were penned by ignorant fools clinging to superstitious santa claus myths, and you’re all getting into heated arguments and thus proving the paradigm.
Historically speaking, almost ALL religions have resulted in the slaughter of ‘non-believers’. HOWEVER, almost all of them have abandoned these behaviors. Almost all of them fit the ‘coexist’ model EXCEPT ONE.
There is only one religion in the world today actively slaughtering non-believers. There is only one religion in the world that is actively engaged in more than 20 wars worldwide. There is only one religion that is engaged in modern day murder, rape, torture, slavery, mutilation, and genocide. That religion is Islam and it has kept hundreds of millions of people in a state of ignorance. They haven’t progressed with the rest of the world and are in fact still stuck in the 15th century. Despots and tyrants use this religion to keep people in chains, both literal and figurative.
It’s high time you fools stop coddling the issue and stop speaking in effete politically correct terms. Face the FACT that Muslims want you converted or dead, period.
The Master's Slave said:
I don’t think responding to the upper portion of your comment will result in anything productive, but I will have to agree with your opinion on Islam.
Islam is a violent religion and for people to think that it is a religion of peace, is utter foolishness. How many times have you heard, “Oh no, that’s no us, those people are extremists…” If you’re Muslim, you’re extremist. But the funny thing is, Christianity in it’s purist form, following the teachings of Christ is a real religion of peace, but we are deemed violent. Islam is responsible for killing, maiming and hurting anyone who says one word against them yet they are considered peaceful.
Hmmm…Kira?
Kira said:
No, I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. This is exactly why I bothered commenting on this post. I agree with you; there are a lot of Islamic terrorists out there commiting very high profile criems, engaged in very high profile conflicts. However, that is not to say that there aren’t terrorists who use other religions as a justification for hurting innocent people. Their are Christian terrorists, as well: the LRA, though certainly they are not as widespread as they once were; Anders Behring Breivik, the self proclaimed “Christian crusader”; numerous instances of christian terrorists attacking innocents in Nigeria, although yes Muslim extremists have attacked Christians there as well; there are Hindus killing Muslims in many places, too; there is violence against people of indigenous beliefs by Christians and people of other dominant religions everywhere. There are terrorists in every religion. The difference is that groups like Al-Qaeda have resources and are attacking the west, resulting in massive media attention. Just because you never here of other religious terrorists doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Now, in no way am I defending terrorists. I despise terrorism in every form, based in religion or in something else. It is disgusting to hurt innocent people. However, there are well over a billion Muslims in the world. You absolutely cannot call Islam a violent religion when the vast majority of these people aren’t involved in any form of terrorism, just as the vast majority of people of other beliefs are not terrorists. Michael, I do agree with what you said in your first paragraph, though. There is no way of proving one faith over another, which is why I have never tried to.
doreen said:
I thought she was done with the website?
Too much steam I guess.
The Master's Slave said:
I hope she does come back. She needs Jesus in the worst way.
Kira said:
My message has very clearly been lost in all this commenting, so I will restate it quite simply: I commented on this post because it was very generalistic and not at all accurate. The bumper sticker was not directed at Christianity, Islam is not a evil religion, and there are quite a few other things that were wrong with the analysis. So there. That is all I wished to say. You said earlier that Christianity in its purest form is a religion of peace. You’re absolutely correct and I have not once argued with that! But if you know that then you must surely be able to recognize that Islam and most other major religions in their purest forms are also peaceful. That is all I was saying. Generalizations like the ones made on the bumper sticker analysis are inaccurate and demeaning. They pull people apart, which is in fact the exact opposite of what the bumper sticker is meant to do. Coexisting is not a negative thing. It is something that can be very easily achieved if we would all simply respect each other.
John said:
To Kira:
I am a Christian and I understand your point of view completely. Too often individuals from different religions fall into the right/wrong mentality and miss the point completely. Existence was never meant to be about religion, it is about Faith in God, and the core foundation of God’s creation- Freewill (mankind). Regardless of the religious affiliation a person chooses, no one individual has the right to claim their opinion as The Way.
To all the other Christians on this blog:
We, as Christians, were not called to throw the Gospel in peoples faces bringing forth God’s Judgement against them. We were called to love everyone, unconditionally, through forgiveness and Faith, without passing judgement or swinging the “Sword of Truth.” Refer to your Bibles: read Matthew 22:35-40, then Mark 12:28-34, then Luke 10:25-37, and finally Ephesians 2:8-9. No man, Christian or otherwise, has the right to “boast” their position on any matter, including their own salvation. Jesus didn’t run to the Church to support all of the Religious leaders who were working to hold mankind accountable to God’s Law. He instead became, the “Friend of Sinners,” the perfect example of how we should treat each other. Jesus loved the thieves, whores, diseased, and even the deceitful, controlling, and over zealous religious leaders responsible for his eventual death. Satan’s favorite and most powerful tool is DECEPTION. So please, my Brothers and Sisters in Christ, do not make the mistake of throwing your FAITH aside, to pick up the Hatred and rejection of other human being’s ideals, as it is often perceived as “religious affiliation.”
One day I will stand before God, and on that Day I will only have to answer for me. I am only responsible for my actions, and as such cannot make myself responsible for the actions of others. I choose to hold to my FAITH, that God created the world, God created Us, and God is the only one in control. I thank God for Christ, so that by Grace through FAITH, I can mind my own actions and love others to the best of my ability, praying for guidance EVERY DAY for the rest of my earthly life.
“Life is a Journey that’s not about Us” – Anonymous
Kira said:
Thank you, John; I agree with you 100%.
E.A. Blair said:
More Christians have been killed for religious reasons by other Christians than by members of all other religions combined. The most severe persecution of Christians by the Romans (who were, in turn, persecuted when Christians took over the Empire) can’t hold a candle to the numbers of Christians killed in the name of suppressing heresy and unorthodoxy. In the early days, Arianist and Manichaean Christians were slaughtered for their “deviant ” beliefs; later, the Inquisition pursued perceived heretics without mercy. Albigensians, Cathars, Adamists and members of other groups were slaughtered by the thousands. Come the reformation, Protestants and Catholics went t war murdered each other with glee in conflicts that survived to within living memory (i.e., Ireland). In all of Western history, only one nation accepted Christianity without having being forced to do so.
Many evangelical Christians believe they have a mandate to “teach all nations”, or, in other words, convert the whole world. Some will do it by force if necessary. At least one US politician, a well-known political pundit and a number of televangelists have called for conversion at gunpoint. The defining hymn of Christianity is more likely to be “Onward Christian Soldiers” than “God Is Love”. The Christ himself would repudiate the whole lot of people who act in his name.
The Master's Slave said:
Whatever happened to being meek and lowly? Whatever happened to turning the other cheek and embracing persecution? Whatever happened to just being like Christ and spreading the Gospel with love and caring rather than treating the world like second class citizens instead of treating everyone like Jesus in disguise?
I just watched a documentary on the history of Scotland and it made me sick how so many people were slaughtered in the name of God. God didn’t tell us to kill the lost if they didn’t convert. Creflo Dollar was quoted to say, “Pay your tithes or be shot”.
It just makes me sick to see such disgusting, selfish behaviour in the name of Christ, when such behaviour is so far from how Christ acted it’s not even funny.
Thanks for dropping by and leaving an intelligent and respectful comment.
E.A. Blair said:
The meekness, humility and turning the other cheek went out the window as soon as the Roman Empire adopted Christianity as a state religion. Tne legions became Soldiers of Christ. If you were a tributary kingdom, you converted or were left on your own to deal with the barbarian hordes. The temples were ground to dust, books were destroyed and the pope became the de facto emperor.
The Master's Slave said:
Makes ya sick, doesn’t it? And most of what goes for Christianity today is made up. Most of what we do in “church” today was a concoction of Constantine and his yes men. I pray that those of us who have a heart for Christ have our eyes opened to what Christ originally taught to His men. What did the first apostles know that has been lost to us through corruption? Oh, that we may know His heart rather than a cleverly taught ideology geared to bring in money and numbers.